In the homily delivered by the celebrant last week during the Feast of the Assumption of Mother Mary on 15th Aug 2008, the often asked question “Why do Catholics worship Mary?” was raised. Shouldn’t Catholics be worshipping God instead, the supreme being, rather than a mere mortal? Isn’t God more important than Mary? What has Mary done to receive the reverence of Catholics? Indeed why?
To put the understanding of Mary in its proper perspective, Catholics do not worship Mary, for worship is only for God. Mary is being honoured as the chosen one to assume a very special role in God’s plan of salvation.
In the Annunciation when the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, an invitation was extended from God to her. She was invited to bear the Son of God. Amongst all women, that invitation went only to Mary. God knew that Mary would accept that invitation. Nevertheless, the focus was on Mary. Yes or no, the choice was hers. She can reject that invitation. However, her utmost faithfulness to God was in her reply “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” The Fiat of Mary. She fully submits herself to do God’s will in the face of trepidation that will arrive one day. The Annunciation was not just another appearance of God to mortals found in Scriptures. This appearance and invitation of God sets forth in bringing Jesus, the Son of God, into the world.
During the Visitation when Mary, pregnant with Jesus, arrived at Elizabeth’s home who was also pregnant carrying John the Baptist, it was not a mere social greeting between two pregnant women saying “Hi! Long time no see. How have you been. I see that you are pregnant too”. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” The exclamation of Elizabeth was not just a verbal greeting from herself. It was God’s holy Spirit in her that displayed the utmost respect that was showered on Mary. Subsequently, Elizabeth who was so joyous from this visit, not from just the presence of Mary a mortal, but the chosen woman who is carrying the “mother of my Lord”. Not the “Lord” that refers to the social hierarchy of “Sir” or someone of power and high social standing. It will be the “Lord” who will one day free mankind from sins and pave the way back to God.
The Eve in Genesis that led mankind fall into sin. So is Mary, the new “Eve” that brings Jesus into the world in God’s plan of salvation. If God has given Mary this honourable and special role of being the Mother of Jesus, who are we, as believers, to refute the honour that was bestowed by God on her?
Praise the Lord
My Dear Beloved Brothers & Sisters In Jesus Christ,
Perhaps the most outstanding proof that Mary worship developed out of the old worship of the pagan mother goddess may be seen from the fact that in pagan religion, the mother was worshipped as much (or more) than her son! This provides an outstanding clue to help us solve the mystery of Babylon today!
True Christianity teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ and He alone is The way, The Truth and The Life; that He alone, of all the earth’s creatures, has ever lived a life that was never stained with sin; and He is to be Worshipped, never His mother but Roman Catholicism showing the influence that paganism has had in its development in many ways exalts the MOTHER also.
One can travel the world over, and whether in a massive cathedral or in a village chapel, the statue of Mary will occupy a prominent position. In reciting the Rosary the “Hail Mary” is repeated nine times as often as the “Lords Prayer”. Catholics are taught that the reason for praying to Mary is that she can take the petition to her Son, Jesus Christ and since she is His mother He will answer the request for her sake. The inference is that Mary is more compassionate, understanding, and merciful than her Son Jesus Christ. Certainly this is contrary to the scriptures! Yet this idea has often been repeated in Catholic writings.
One noted Roman Catholic writer Alphonsus Liguori, wrote at length telling how more effectual prayers are that are addressed to Mary rather than to Christ. Liguori incidently, was canonized as a “Saint” by Pope Gregory XIV in 1839 and was declared a “doctor of the Catholic Church by Pope Pius IX. In one portion of his writings, he described an imaginary scene in which a sinful man saw two ladders hanging from heaven. Mary was at top of one and Jesus on top of the other. When the sinner tried to climb the one ladder, he saw a angry face of Christ and fell defeated, but when he climbed Mary’s ladder he ascended easily and was openly welcomed by Mary who brought him into heaven and presented him to Christ! Then all was well. The story was supposed to show how much easier and more effective it is to go to Christ through Mary.
The same writer said that the sinner who ventures to come directly to Christ may come with dread of his wrath, but if he prays to the Virgin, she will only have to “show” the son “the breasts that gave him suck”
And his wrath will be immediately appeased! Such reasoning is in direct conflict with scriptural example. “Blessed is the womb that bare thee”, a woman said to Jesus, “and the paps that thou has sucked!” but Jesus answered, “Yea, rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it”. (Luke 11:27-28).
Such ideas about the breasts, on the other hand, were not foreign to the worshippers of the pagan mother goddess. Images of her have been unearthed which often show her breasts extremely out of proportion to her body. In the case of Diana, to symbolize her fertility, she is picture with as many as one hundred breasts!
Further attempts to exalt Mary to a glorified position within Catholicism may be seen in the doctrine of the “immaculate conception.” This doctrine was pronounced and defined by Pius IX in 1854 that the Blessed Virgin Mary “in the first instant of her conception … was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin.” It would appear that this teaching is only a further effort to make Mary more closely resemble the goddess of paganism, for in the old myths; the goddess was also believed to have had a supernatural conception! The stories varied, but all told of supernatural happenings in connection with her entrance into the world, that she was superior to ordinary mortals, that she was divine.
Little by little, so that the teachings about Mary would not appear inferior to those of the mother goddess, it was necessary to teach that Mary’s entrance into the world involved a supernatural element also!
Is the doctrine that Mary was born without the stain of original sin scriptural? We will answer this in the words of The Catholic Encyclopedia itself: “No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from scripture”. It is pointed out, rather that these ideas were gradual development within the Church.
Right here it should be explained that this is a basic, perhaps the basic, difference between the Roman Catholic approach to Christianity and the general Protestant view. The Roman Catholic Church, as it acknowledges, has long grown and developed around a multitude of traditions and ideas handled down by Church fathers over the centuries, even the beliefs brought over from paganism if they could be “Christianized” and also the Scriptures. Concepts from all these sources have been mixed together and developed, finally to become dogmas at various Church councils. On the other hand, the view which the Protestants Reformation sought to revive was a return to the actual scriptures as a more sound basic for doctrine, with little or no emphasis on the ideas that developed in later centuries.
Going right to the scriptures, not only is any proof for the idea of Immaculate Conception of Mary lacking, there is evidence to the contrary. While she was a chosen vessel of the LORD, was a godly and virtuous woman –a virgin—she was as much a human as any other member of Adam’s family. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom3:23), the only exception being Jesus Christ himself. Like anyone else, Mary needed a Saviour and plainly admitted this when she said: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR” (Luke 1:47).
If Mary needed a Saviour, then she needed to be Saved, Forgiven and Redeemed as others. The fact is our Lord’s divinity did not depend on his mother being some type of exalted, divine person.
Instead, He was divine because He was the only begotten Son of God.
His divinity came from His heavenly Father.
The idea that Mary was superior to other human being was not the teaching of Jesus Christ. Once someone mentioned His mother and brethren. Jesus asked “Who is my mother? And who are my brethren?” Then stretching forth his hand towards His disciples said “Behold my mother and my brethren! For WHOSOEVER shall do the will of my Father which in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and MOTHER” (Mathew12:46-50). Plainly enough, anyone who does the will of God is, in definite sense, on the same level with Mary.
Each day Catholics the world over recites the Hail Mary, the Rosary, the Angelus, the Litanies of the Blessed Virgin and others. Multiplying the number of these prayers, times the number of Catholics who recite them each day, someone has estimated that Mary would have to listen to 46,296petitions a second!
Obviously no one but God himself could do this. Nevertheless, Catholics believe that Mary hears all of these prayers and so of necessity, they have had to exalt her to the divine level –scriptural or not!
Attempting to justify the way Mary has been exalted, some have quoted the words of Gabriel to Mary, “Blessed art thou among woman” (Luke1:28), but Mary being “blessed among women” cannot make her a divine person, for many centuries before this, a similar blessing was pronounced upon Jael, of whom it was said: “blessed above woman shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be ….” (Judges5:24).
Before Pentecost, Mary gathered with the other disciples waiting for the promise of the Holy Spirit. We read that the apostles “all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus and His brethren” (Acts1:14). Typical of Catholic ideas concerning Mary, the illustration (as seen in the Official Baltimore Catechism) attempts to give Mary a central position but as all students of the Bible know, that the disciples were not looking to Mary on that occasion. They were looking to their resurrected and ascended CHRIST to outpour on them the gift of Holy Spirit. We also notice in the drawings and in pictures show Mary in the center of the disciples and the Holy Spirit (as a dove) is seen hovering over her! Yet as far as the scriptural account is concerned, the only one person upon whom the spirit as a dove descended was Jesus himself – not His mother!
On the other hand, the pagan virgin goddess under the name of Juno was often represented with dove on her head, as was also Astarte, Cybele and Isis!
Further attempts to glorify Mary may be seen in the Roman Catholic doctrine of perpetual virginity.
This is the teaching that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. The Encyclopedia Britannica explains the doctrine on the perpetual virginity of Mary was not taught until about three hundred years after the ascension of Jesus Christ. It was not until the council of chacedon in 451 that this fabulas quality gained the official recognition of Rome.
According to the scriptures, the birth of Jesus was result of a supernatural conception (Mathew 1:23) without an earthly father, after Jesus was born, Mary gave birth to other children–natural offspring of her union with Joseph her husband. Jesus was Mary’s “first born” son (Mathew1:25) it does not say He was her only child. Jesus being her first born child could certainly infer that later she had second born child, possibly a third-born child etc. That such was the case seems apparent for the names of four brothers are mentioned 1)James, Joseph, Simon and Judas (Mathew13:55). Sisters are also mentioned. The people of Nazareth said: “…. and his sisters are they not all with us?” (Mathew13:56) The word “sisters” is plural, of course so we know that Jesus had at least two sisters and probably more, for this verse speaks of “all” his sisters. Usually if we are referring to only two people we would say “both” of them, not “all” of them.
The implication is that at least three sisters are referred to, if we figure three sisters and four brothers, half brothers and half sisters of Jesus this would make Mary the mother of eight children.
The scripture say “Joseph … “knew her not” till she had brought forth her first born son: and he called his name “JESUS” (Mathew1:25, Luke 2:7). Joseph “knew her not” until after Jesus was born, but after that, Mary and Joseph did come together as husband and wife and children were born to them.
The idea that Joseph kept Mary as a virgin all of her life is clearly unscriptural.
During the times of the falling away, as though to more closely identify Mary with the mother goddess, some taught that Mary’s body never saw corruption, and she bodily ascended into heaven, and now the ‘queen of heaven’. It was not until this present century; however, the doctrine of the ‘assumption’ of Mary was officially proclaimed as a doctrine of Roman Catholic Church.
It was in 1951 that Pope Pius XII proclaimed that Mary’s body saw no corruption and was taken to heaven.
The words of St. Bernard sum up the Roman Catholic position: “On the third day after Mary’s death, when the apostles gathered around her tomb they found it empty. The sacred body had been carried up to the Celestial Paradise … the grave had no power over one who was immaculate … But it was not enough that Mary should be received into heaven. She was to be no ordinary citizen … she had a dignity beyond the reach even of the highest of the archangels. Mary was to be crowned Queen of Heaven by the eternal Father; she was to have a throne at her Sons right hand … Now day by day, hour by hour, she is praying for us, obtaining graces for us, preserving us from danger, shielding us from temptation, showering down blessings upon us.”
All these ideas about Mary are linked with the belief that she bodily ascended into heaven.
Beloved, The Bible says absolutely nothing about the assumption of Mary.
On the contrary John 3:13 says “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” – Jesus Christ himself.
He is the one that is at God’s right hand, He is the one that showers down blessings upon us.
Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men. 1Timothy2:5
Jesus said “I am The Way, The Truth and The Life.” John 14:6
Jesus said “No one comes to the Father except through Me”. John 14:6
“Believe in Lord Jesus Christ and be Saved – you and your household”. Acts 16:31
Jesus said “So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time”. Mark 13:23
God Said “My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge”. Hosea 4:6
Read the Word Of God listen to the His sweet voice.
Jesus Said “My sheep hear my voice, I know them, They follow me, I give then eternal life and no one can snatch them from My hand”. John 10:27
This is the Fantastic Promise Jesus gave us.
Beloved,
Whatever your cross, whatever your pain,
There will always be sunshine after the rain.
Perhaps you may stumble, perhaps even fall,
But God’s always there to help through it all.
Love and Peace be with you forever,
Amen!!
God Bless You
In His Mission
Bro. Alex Dhanvate
Mumbai
I N D I A
Such wonderful insight….thank you for clearing a few things up for me, or rather- confirming my own thoughts! Thank you , sincerely.
Hello Bro Alex,
Thanks for your insighful comments.
Quoted: “The exclamation of Elizabeth was not just a verbal greeting from herself. It was God’s holy Spirit in her that displayed the utmost respect that was showered on Mary. Subsequently, Elizabeth who was so joyous from this visit, not from just the presence of Mary a mortal, but the chosen woman who is carrying the “mother of my Lord”. Not the “Lord” that refers to the social hierarchy of “Sir” or someone of power and high social standing. It will be the “Lord” who will one day free mankind from sins and pave the way back to God.”
Where are your sources on this event? It’s not in the Bible, nor have I ever heard of this before. Where is the assumption made that John the Baptist and Jesus were the same age (their mothers pregnant at the same time)? Also, it is not realistic that Elizabeth would accept Mary as the “mother of my Lord” before the birth of Jesus. Acceptance of Jesus was not common until his ministry began, much later in his life (30 years of age roughly). Even then, many very educated people rejected him.
Magnus, See Luke 1:35 – 45. This is where we know John the Baptist was six months older than Jesus and the events of Mary’s visit to her cousin Elizabeth.
Hi Magnus,
Perhaps the interpretation of the bible text which you have marked in quotations was only revealed to some who understands it. God bless.
I see no scripture anywhere that says Mary is our intercessor to God. Jesus is our intercessor according to the Bible. I have a brother who refuses to read the Bible but is caught up in all the tradition. He believes he will get to heaven based on just being a Catholic.
To ordinary guy. Read Luke chapter 1. It explains it all.
My email address is xpagan66@gmail.com. I was a Catholic, non practicing for 46 years and then I read the Bible which seems to be what a lot of folks have not done. I am now 66 and have found some startling things in it. For starters there are no denominations. Most traditions of churches are not there either. Like Baptizing babies. It’s not about your or my denominations, we do not need them nor do they get us into heaven. What does get us into heaven is reading God’s word and following IT, not mans. Man is not capable of writing anything without supplying his own wisdom. The scripture says that “the Gospel confounds the wisdom of the wise. In Galatians it says “if any man or an angel preach or teach any other Gospel than the one Jesus preached let him be cursed”. Lots of folks R in trouble with that one.
Hello Mikres,
Thanks for your earnest comments above. Perhaps if I may share with you my thoughts.
Indeed Mary is a human being, just like you and me. But a very special one no doubt. God chose her to bear the Saviour. Who’s to contest what God has decided on His choice. I still can’t find anywhere in the Bible that explains why Mary was the chosen one. Perhaps you may enlighten our readers where can we find the evidence in the Bible that explains why mary was the chose one?
Well, in what I believe as a Catholic, Mary is the intercessor just like the many Saints whom we turn to asking to pray with us to God. Asking to pray with us and not pray to. Jesus is the Saviour and Redemeer.
Anyone, regardless of religious beliefs or denominations can go to heaven if they want to, not just Catholics alone. It very much depends on what they do on this earthly life that on judgement day when we stand before God, He will decide who’s in and who’s out. Neither you nor me or anybody has the capacity to decide who goes to heaven or not.
Look upon the Bible as a guide book. Guided by the Holy Spirit, accounts were written and selected ones were complied in what is known as the Bible. By no means if you just learn and read scripture alone warrants a place in heaven. I believe Jesus taught us more than just reading the Bible. Yes, reading the Bible is important. The other part is living our lives in the way he has shown us. For the Bible is not just for the wise but for everybody and how you apply it in your life from what you have learnt.
You are right. There were no denominations in the early days. Jesus introduced Christianity. As you know, it was splintered during the Protestant Reformation during the time of Martin Luther…and till today, new Christian denominations and Churches are still being created.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
Ordinary guy. Let me say that we R all free to do what wish. But as an example if we try to land a plane we have to follow the text books on how to do it. If we don’t we crash and burn. Also there R 2 roads in scripture. Read Luke 13:16-24.
Why did God choose Mary? Because He is sovereign and I am not. Why did God say He loved Jacob and hated Essau? Because He is sovereign. Why do we pray 4 people 2 be healed and some die and some get healed? Why does the baby die who has a brain tumor, and another lives? Why did He allow this single woman in the news 2 have 14 children when she is not married? Because He can.
In 1 Timothy 2:5 it says there is one mediator between God and man. Look it up in your Catholic Bible, which is the same as mine and U will see who HE is. The word mediator is used 6 times in the NT. Never is it mentioned as anyone other than _____.
If U read the NT, just the Gospel of John if U prefer, U will find that by the time U have read the first 3 chapters you will know wheather or not U R going to heaven. It is not Rhoad scholar stuff. In Jn 1:1-5 it speaks of the “Word”. Very intense. Who is the “WORD”? Vs 14 tells us who the “WORD” is. Vs 12 tells us we can become children of God and the criteria for it. Notice it is a choice.
Read Jn 3:18. There U will find out wheather or not one is condemned or not. Notice what it does not say.
Read Romas 10:9-13. See what the criteria is again. Notice, no strings no tradition. Just belive, from the heart. It’s the key.
Read Epheseans 2:4-10. Read it sloooooowwwwllllly 10 times and let it sink in. Then read the whole chapter 10 times and sit and be very quiet, in a closet if U have to. It will set U free from works based salvation.
Useing your word now.
Look upon the Bible as a guide book. (YES TO HEAVEN)Guided by the Holy Spirit, accounts were written and selected ones were complied in what is known as the Bible. (TRUE) By no means if you just learn and read scripture alone warrants a place in heaven. (NOT TRUE. THE BIBLE SHOWS US THE WAY) I believe Jesus taught us more than just reading the Bible. (TRUE, JESUS DID NOT TEACH US THE BIBLE, HE TAUGHT US HOW TO LIVE AND HOW TO ENJOY ETERNAL LIFE WITH HIM. IT’S ALL THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE AND RED. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WHEN WE USE THE WORDS. “I THINK”, WE BEGIN OUR INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE BASED ON OUR UN-SOVEREIGN ABILITIES. WHEN WE ACCEPT SCRIPTURE AS IT IS WE R TRULY OPERATING ON FAITH) Yes, reading the Bible is important. (IT IS PARAMONT AND THE ONLY BOOK WE NEED) The other part is living our lives in the way he has shown us. For the Bible is not just for the wise but for everybody and how you apply it in your life from what you have learnt. ABSOLUTELY. IT IS ALL THERE. IT IS NOT A DENOMINATIONAL BOOK. ANYONE CAN PICK IT UP, READ IT AND BE SAVED, HEALED, AND DELIVERED FROM THEIR PAST AND THEN KNOW WHAT AND WHERE THEIR FUTURE IS.
Finally if U look at how the Apostles were addressed, it was by their names. Bro Paul etc. The word Pastor is only used once and no one was addressed by the word. Similarly in Matt 23:9 to the end of the chapter.
Thank’s ordinary guy. I am not a scholar or a theologan, just a believer in Jesus.
Love the conversation.
Dear Jeff Mikres,
Yes. You are right. We have the freedom of choice and this freedom carries a degree of responsibility. A responsibility to oneself, our family, the community, and even to those who may not share the same religious beliefs.
Many routes to the peak of the mountain. Let us help each other along though we may not embark on the same route but yet moving in the same direction.
Let God decide who goes in or who’s out of heaven. I can be a pious Christian, following all the laws and regulations that a Christian is required. I can be a biblical scholar to expound the entire Bible, forward and backwards, inside out. But if I cannot even accept my other friends for what they nor respect people of other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam…etc. How can I profess myself to be a Christian? I’m being more like a Pharisee like those in the bible…and you know that Jesus disliked the Pharisee. Not because they have knowledge and keep the laws of Moses. But because they are so full of themselves that they forgot what salvation means to them. To help others.
Thanks for your very enlightening comments.
Thank you so much, ordinary guy. you explained your position and mine so well that I will quote it instead of trying to explain it myself.
So the, in a polite way U R saying I am a Pharisee. U have undoubtedly heard of the church of sciontology. They R a cult. They believe they R on a path also. So, if I am correct a person who believes in anything, any relegion, will get to the same destination in the end?
There is another scripture also that says there is only one way to God and it is thru Jesus.
U called me a Theologen, and I can’t even spell it. What I have said to U from scripture is not secret society stuff but what U will find in reading the Bible. Have U read the Bible at least once? I was raised a Catholic and was never encouraged to read it. I was given the Catachism and all the rhote prayers and the Rosary etc, but never the Bible where the answers R. I was speaking to 3 of the cult members mentioned above about salvation and the way to God and I gave them 3 doors. 1. Jesus. 2 Continuein the works that lead to hell, and another door. They choose to continue on the road they were on.
Change comes hard.
Shalom
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I’ll try to explain it in a simpler way. Jesus loves the sinner but detest the sins. Whoever that believes in whatever, we should not judge them. The judging is in God’s hands. But if you are aware that someone is going down the wrong path, then encourage them back onto the correct one. Let them decide for themselves for you have accomplished your role as an instrument of God.
Being a Christian or even a Catholic does not automatically grants us a reservation in heaven. We learn about God and his teachings in the bible. The most important lesson in my view is that of love. As much as we dislike the person’s character, behaviour, actions, beliefs etc, we are called to love one another. This very difficult to do. But to experience salvation, we need to have humility, kindness, etc. Reading the the scripture helps to enlightened us. Having understood it, how we lead our lives is what we need to do. Living the Faith.
I’ll try to explain it in a simpler way. Jesus loves the sinner but detest the sins. (TRUE) Whoever that believes in whatever, we should not judge them. The judging is in God’s hands. (TRUE) But if you are aware that someone is going down the wrong path, then encourage them back onto the correct one. (TRUE) Let them decide for themselves for you have accomplished your role as an instrument of God. (TRUE WE ALL GET TO CHOOSE)
Being a Christian or even a Catholic (CAN U SERERATE THEM, A CHRISTIAN AND A CATHOLIC?) does not automatically grants us a reservation in heaven. We learn about God and his teachings in the bible. ( WRONG. IF ONE IS A CHRISTIAN BY DEFINITION, A CHRIST FOLLOWER. THEY WILL BE IN HEAVEN. IF ONE IS A NATIONALIST CHRISTIAN, ONE WHO JUST GOES TO CHURCH WITH NO ACTION ATTACHED WILL NOT) The most important lesson in my view is that of love. As much as we dislike the person’s character, behaviour, actions, beliefs etc, we are called to love one another. (TRUE) This very difficult to do. But to experience salvation, we need to have humility, kindness, etc. Reading the the scripture helps to enlightened us. Having understood it, how we lead our lives is what we need to do. Living the Faith.
SALVATION IS NOT ATTAINED BY THE CRITERIA U LISTED, ALTHOUGH IMPORTANT. SALVATION, ENTRANCE INTO HEAVEN, ASSURANCE U R GOING TO HEAVEN, SPENDING ETERNITY WITH CHRIST, HOWEVER U WANT TO PHRASE IT, IS SIMPLY ATTAINED BY ACCEPTING JESUS AS SAVIOR, CONFESSING WITH THE MOUTH AND BELIEVING WITH YOUR HEART. THERE IS A BIG FAT PERIOD AFTER THAT. NOW, AFTER ONE GETS SAVED, EPHEASEANS 2 SAYS GOD HAS SOME WORK FOR US HE HAD PLANNED SINCE BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH. IT ALSO SAYS IN 1 CORINTHIANS CH 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.
NOTICE THAT PAUL IS JUDGING THE FOLKS IN THE CHURCH, BUT LEAVES THE ONES OUTSIDE THE CHURCH TO GOD.
ORDINARY, HAVE U READ THE BIBLE? I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW SO I CAN TELL WHERE U R COMING FROM. WE HAVE TO DIFFERENCIATE IF WE R HAVING A DIALOG OR A MONOLOGUE.
OG
I took your comments and pasted them and then responded in caps. It was easier 4 me.
Is our dialog over?
Hi Jeff,
I understand where you are coming from though I may disagree on certain aspects. I do not expect you to accept what my views and I respect your for what you believe. It was a good opportunity for understanding on common grounds.
And yes, I do read the Bible and follows the St Jerome Bible Commentary and the CCC which I try to gain a better understanding of not just what God is saying but what he hope we will live our lives to be on this temporal existence on earth.
Hi OG.
Thanks for replying. I would really like to know on what points U disagree on from a scriptural position. Do U disagree from your own understanding or can U give me reasons from the Bible. I always like to learn. I do not personally have all the answers but the Bible does.
Thanks
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Nice of you to dialogue on common ground. I look at the teachings of Christ on a contextual point of view.
1. You put across an interesting point, “If one is a Christian by definition, a Christ follower, they will be in heaven. If one is a Nationalist Christian, one who just goes to Church with no action attached will not.” There are a couple of interesting aspects if I may raise. What constitutes a Christian? Does going to Church defines a person as a follower of Christ? What kind of actions are required of a Christian? Actions upon whom? Are these actions, supposedly required of Christian, grants salvation if they are carried out – out of fear that a person would not be granted salvation if such actions are omitted? Or perhaps should such actions of oneself to our fellow human beings to be one centered in love just as Jesus has shown us?
2. Another interesting point you raised was, “Salvation is attained by accepting Jesus as Saviour”. My view is far more than a human expression of acceptance in words and rites. For those who have come to embrace him are called to Apostolic Discipleship. Not just to say I accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour but more importantly to live in the ways he has taught us. And when we say to live in his ways, it’s not just an inward relationship of me, myself and God, but in the way of faithful living that extends to the community of fellow human beings regardless of nationality, race, creed, language, colour. The context goes that Jesus came to save all men, even the non-believers. Moreover, God grants salvation and perhaps when I go before him, he will read my Book of Life and I can only humbly pray and hope that I will be given some space in heaven.
3. To understand the Epistles of St Paul’s to the Corinthians, there is a need to understand the climate of the society and the early Christians of Corinth at that time and what prompted his epistles. Corinth was a city in the middle of a commercial crossroad. It was a melting pot of devotees of various pagan cults. Moral depravity was rampant. St Paul established a Christian community in AD 51. Many who became baptized were grappling with the implications of their baptism in their lives. Many questions were raise by the early Christians of Corinth to St Paul but what we have were St Paul’s one-direction correspondences to the Corinthians found in his epistles. The community of Corinth displayed open factionalism. Certain members were identifying themselves exclusively with individual Christian leaders and interpreting Christian teachings to be of superior wisdom. There were discrimination among certain members within the Christian community. Drunkardness at fellowship meals and denial of the poor into Christian membership because of their social status. St Paul wrote to give guidance to the early Christians of Corinthians in the midst of these social ills in their community.
St Paul encouraged the Corinthians to remain faithful to the teachings of Christ lest they fall into the category of those who called themselves Christians but yet lead a life of chosen depravity. In 1 Cor 5:9-13, St Paul corrects a misunderstanding of his earlier directives against associating with immoral fellow Christians. He concedes the impossibility of avoiding contact with sinners in society at large but urges the Corinthians to maintain the inner purity of their own community and the purity in themselves.
Hello OG
The answer to #1.
Be a Christ follower. Exhibit the charactor of Christ. Gal 5 speaks of the gifts of the Spirit. The Spirit is God, and Jesus.
If U have no fruit the tree is NG. Also Eph 2 says,
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (NOTICE THE PAST TENSE, WHAT WE WERE BEFORE WE ACCEPTED JESUS, AND THEN THE SPIRIT BEGINS IT’S WORK IN US)
4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. ( U SEE THAT WE WERE DEAD IN OUR SINS, JESUS LOVED US, MADE US ALIVE WHEN WE WERE DEAD WITH CHRIST,RAISED US UP WITH CHRIST SEATED US WITH CHRIST IN HEAVEN. WE ARE NOW A PRODUCT OF JESUS’ WORKMANSHIP, HE BEING THE POTTER, WHO MADE US ANEW TO DO WORKS JESUS HAD SET UP BEFORE THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM) nOTICE THERE IS NO TRADITION MENTIONED HERE. JUST THE WORD OF GOD.
11Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision (GENTILES) by what is called the Circumcision (JEWS) made in the flesh by hands—12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope (GET THAT, NO HOPE)and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (STRICTLY BY JESUS’ BLOOD)
14For He Himself is our peace, (JESUS ALONE, NO TRADITIONS) who has made both one (JEWS AND GENTILES), and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross,(AGAIN NO TRADITION) thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. (ACCESS BY WHOM?)
19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints (JEWS) and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. (NOTICE OG VS 22, U R A DWELLING PLACE OF GOD. AND ME AND ANYONE WHO HAS ACCEPTED JESUS)
ANSWER TO #2. YES AS IN #1 WE MUST EXHIBIT OUR SALVATION IN THE WORLD. THE IDEA BEING THAT WE R THE ONLY BIBLE SOME PEOPLE WILL SEE. SO WE SHOW THEM THE CHARACTOR OF JESUS AND THEY ASK US WHAT IT IS WE HAVE AND WE LEAD THEM TO JESUS.
MATTHEW 9:13 SAYS WHO JESUS CAME TO SAVE. 13For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
OG, IF I COULD PUT LETTERS 6′ HIGH FOR U TO SHOW U THAT U DO NOT HAVE TO HOPE U WILL BE IN HEAVEN U CAN KNOW U WILL BE THERE. U SAY U READ THE BIBLE.
I HAVE SHOWN U SCRIPTURE AFTER SCRIPTURE ON HOW TO KNOW U R GOING TO HEAVEN. HOW ABOUT,
“THOSE THAT CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED”?
IF U BELIEVE IN HEART AND CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD U WILL BE SAVED.
BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND U WILL BE SAVED.
OG, WHEN U PRAY THOSE PRAYERS FROM THE HEART YOUR NAME IS WRITTIN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE.
IN PHIL 4:3 IT SAYS,
3And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.
THESE PEOPLE WERE BELIEVERS LIKE US. MY NAME IS IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.
IN REVELATION 3:5 IT SAYS,
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
HOW COOL IS THAT?
SO U SEE OG IF YOU HAVE ASKED JESUS IN AND R WALKING IN THE SPIRIT AND EXBIBITING THE WORKS OF THE SPIRIT YOUR GOING TO HEAVEN AND U R IN THE LAMBS (JESUS’) BOOK OF LIFE.
ANSWER TO #3. ABSOLUTELY. PAUL EVEN WARNED THEM NOT TO TAKE COMMUNION IN AN UNWOTHY MANOR AND SAID THAT THAT IS WHY SOME HAVE DIED EARLY.
AND AS U SAID THAT IN CH 5 PAUL SAID NOT TO EVEN EAT WITH THE PEOPLE MENTIONED.
OG
Here is an article I found today in a local newspaper.
Here is the link.
http://tampabaytimes.fl.newsmemory.com/
In Belfast reserve, a sad search for babies’ graves
Associated Press
Archaeologists are searching for unmarked mass graves containing hundreds of unbaptized babies and infants buried by the Catholic Church on the edge of a Belfast cemetery in Northern Ireland.
Unlike many other Christian churches, the Catholic Church teaches that baptism is essential for a soul to enter heaven and therefore the ritual must take place as near to birth as possible. For decades, newborns and infants who died before baptism were deemed ineligible for salvation and were not buried on consecrated, or holy, ground.
Individual priests in Belfast began loosening that restriction in the 1980s as families demanded the right to bury their youngest loved ones in marked family plots.
“We’re coming out of what we can only regard as a mistaken theology of a hundred years ago,” said the Rev. John McManus, a priest who has been working with the families. “People have been carrying the grief and burden of losing a child for decades. It’s important we get this right.”(MISTAKEN THEOLOGY), I GUESS SO.
The records of Milltown Cemetery indicate that hundreds of unbaptized newborns and infants were interred in unmarked mass graves on the western edge of the cemetery — land that the church sold nearly a decade ago to a nature reserve.
Archaeologists are using groundpenetrating radar to try to identify the mass graves of unbaptized babies in a nature reserve.
How is that for tradition in error. If U can find anyplace in the Bible that baptizes babies I will take U to dinner in Paris France.
OG have U given up? What do U think of the article.
Jeff,
For some, sharing the faith is to get the other person to believe what you believe. For others, it is understanding what the other person believe and respecting them for what they believe. I’m in the latter.
For some, living the faith centres on knowledge. For others, it is understanding what you believe that will transform the way you live your life in relationship with others. I’m in the latter.
I try my best to share and live the faith respecting you for what you believe.
Regarding the newspaper article you referred above, some see it as pointing out a fault. For others, it is seen an acknowledgement of fault and coming out to admit a fault and to seek forgiveness with redress.
OG My comment in caps.
For some, sharing the faith is to get the other person to believe what you believe. (LIKE THE APOSTLES)For others, it is understanding what the other person believe and respecting them for what they believe. I’m in the latter. (IF THE APOSTLES OPERATED LIKE THAT WE WOULD STILL BE UNDER THE LAW)
For some, living the faith centres on knowledge. For others, it is understanding what you believe that will transform the way you live your life in relationship with others. I’m in the latter.(ME TOO)
I try my best to share and live the faith respecting you for what you believe. (I CAN RESPECT A MORMON FOR WHAT HE BELIEVES ALSO. THEY R GOOD PEOPLE. BUT I CAN ASK HIM WHY HE BELIEVES WHAT HE DOES. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD AND IT IS THRU JESUS. AS AN EXAMPLE. THE MORMONS
BELIEVE OTHERWISE. OUR BIBLE SAYS THEY R ON THE WRONG ROAD AND GOING TO HELL. A TOUGH WORD.
Regarding the newspaper article you referred above, some see it as pointing out a fault. For others, it is seen an acknowledgement of fault and coming out to admit a fault and to seek forgiveness with redress. (IT WAS A HUGE FAULT THAT KILLED 100’S OF BABIES. U R CONDONING IT AND MAKING EXCUSES FOR IT. WHAT DO U SUPPOSE GOD WILL SAY ABOUT THAT ON JUDGEMENT DAY?)
OG I HAVE TRIED TO GIVE U SCRIPTURE UPON SCRIPTURE FROM THE BIBLE. THE SAME ONE U USE AND U HAVE NOT COMMENTED ON ONE VS.
I GUESS I WAS RIGHT IN MY THINKING THAT U R ONLY INTERESTED IN A MONOLOGUE. SO I WILL SAY GOD BY.
SHALOM
Please allow me to state that I am a christian- not a catholic. There is a difference. Being christian is different from being religious. Religious people believe the way to heaven is dependent on the deeds they do here on earth. They believe that by living a good life they will be rewarded and granted a place in heaven based on that. As a Christian its already been done for me. That was the sole purpose of Jesus Christ. He took ALL of my sins so that I have the chance to have eternal life. I only need to believe and except that. That is what a personal relationship with Christ is all about. I still sin- every day- maybe more than others, maybe less. But I know that by having faith in Christ my sins are forgiven. Now by doing good and righteous deeds as a saved Christian my reward in heaven will be greater- but rest assured my salvation is guaranteed by my acceptance of Christ.
Its not about what I DO- its already been DONE. No one can pray me into heaven- there is no purgatory where we go until our loved ones pray hard enough to get us in- only our acceptance of Christ can do that- or be COMPLETELY sin free – which we know is impossible for man. The bible is very clear on Christ’s teachings if it is read. The catholic religion (universal religion) started out as the true Church of Christ. Man in his greed found that by altering the biblical teachings he could gain power -even over Kings. That was why Martin Luther got upset- he asked the Church to explain why they had changed. His 95 thesis (questions) to the Church went unanswered and he was thrown out starting the Protestant religion as we know it.
Most catholics believe what they have been told to believe and are not aware that many beliefs held dear to them are in fact man-made and completely un-biblical.
Praise the Lord
My Dear Beloved Brothers & Sisters In Jesus Christ,
Perhaps the most outstanding proof that Mary worship developed out of the old worship of the pagan mother goddess may be seen from the fact that in pagan religion, the mother was worshipped as much (or more) than her son! This provides an outstanding clue to help us solve the mystery of Babylon today!
True Christianity teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ and He alone is The way, The Truth and The Life; that He alone, of all the earth’s creatures, has ever lived a life that was never stained with sin; and He is to be Worshipped, never His mother but Roman Catholicism showing the influence that paganism has had in its development in many ways exalts the MOTHER also.
One can travel the world over, and whether in a massive cathedral or in a village chapel, the statue of Mary will occupy a prominent position. In reciting the Rosary the “Hail Mary” is repeated nine times as often as the “Lords Prayer”. Catholics are taught that the reason for praying to Mary is that she can take the petition to her Son, Jesus Christ and since she is His mother He will answer the request for her sake. The inference is that Mary is more compassionate, understanding, and merciful than her Son Jesus Christ. Certainly this is contrary to the scriptures! Yet this idea has often been repeated in Catholic writings.
One noted Roman Catholic writer Alphonsus Liguori, wrote at length telling how more effectual prayers are that are addressed to Mary rather than to Christ. Liguori incidently, was canonized as a “Saint” by Pope Gregory XIV in 1839 and was declared a “doctor of the Catholic Church by Pope Pius IX. In one portion of his writings, he described an imaginary scene in which a sinful man saw two ladders hanging from heaven. Mary was at top of one and Jesus on top of the other. When the sinner tried to climb the one ladder, he saw a angry face of Christ and fell defeated, but when he climbed Mary’s ladder he ascended easily and was openly welcomed by Mary who brought him into heaven and presented him to Christ! Then all was well. The story was supposed to show how much easier and more effective it is to go to Christ through Mary.
The same writer said that the sinner who ventures to come directly to Christ may come with dread of his wrath, but if he prays to the Virgin, she will only have to “show” the son “the breasts that gave him suck”
And his wrath will be immediately appeased! Such reasoning is in direct conflict with scriptural example. “Blessed is the womb that bare thee”, a woman said to Jesus, “and the paps that thou has sucked!” but Jesus answered, “Yea, rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it”. (Luke 11:27-28).
Such ideas about the breasts, on the other hand, were not foreign to the worshippers of the pagan mother goddess. Images of her have been unearthed which often show her breasts extremely out of proportion to her body. In the case of Diana, to symbolize her fertility, she is picture with as many as one hundred breasts!
Further attempts to exalt Mary to a glorified position within Catholicism may be seen in the doctrine of the “immaculate conception.” This doctrine was pronounced and defined by Pius IX in 1854 that the Blessed Virgin Mary “in the first instant of her conception … was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin.” It would appear that this teaching is only a further effort to make Mary more closely resemble the goddess of paganism, for in the old myths; the goddess was also believed to have had a supernatural conception! The stories varied, but all told of supernatural happenings in connection with her entrance into the world, that she was superior to ordinary mortals, that she was divine.
Little by little, so that the teachings about Mary would not appear inferior to those of the mother goddess, it was necessary to teach that Mary’s entrance into the world involved a supernatural element also!
Is the doctrine that Mary was born without the stain of original sin scriptural? We will answer this in the words of The Catholic Encyclopedia itself: “No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from scripture”. It is pointed out, rather that these ideas were gradual development within the Church.
Right here it should be explained that this is a basic, perhaps the basic, difference between the Roman Catholic approach to Christianity and the general Protestant view. The Roman Catholic Church, as it acknowledges, has long grown and developed around a multitude of traditions and ideas handled down by Church fathers over the centuries, even the beliefs brought over from paganism if they could be “Christianized” and also the Scriptures. Concepts from all these sources have been mixed together and developed, finally to become dogmas at various Church councils. On the other hand, the view which the Protestants Reformation sought to revive was a return to the actual scriptures as a more sound basic for doctrine, with little or no emphasis on the ideas that developed in later centuries.
Going right to the scriptures, not only is any proof for the idea of Immaculate Conception of Mary lacking, there is evidence to the contrary. While she was a chosen vessel of the LORD, was a godly and virtuous woman –a virgin—she was as much a human as any other member of Adam’s family. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom3:23), the only exception being Jesus Christ himself. Like anyone else, Mary needed a Saviour and plainly admitted this when she said: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR” (Luke 1:47).
If Mary needed a Saviour, then she needed to be Saved, Forgiven and Redeemed as others. The fact is our Lord’s divinity did not depend on his mother being some type of exalted, divine person.
Instead, He was divine because He was the only begotten Son of God.
His divinity came from His heavenly Father.
The idea that Mary was superior to other human being was not the teaching of Jesus Christ. Once someone mentioned His mother and brethren. Jesus asked “Who is my mother? And who are my brethren?” Then stretching forth his hand towards His disciples said “Behold my mother and my brethren! For WHOSOEVER shall do the will of my Father which in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and MOTHER” (Mathew12:46-50). Plainly enough, anyone who does the will of God is, in definite sense, on the same level with Mary.
Each day Catholics the world over recites the Hail Mary, the Rosary, the Angelus, the Litanies of the Blessed Virgin and others. Multiplying the number of these prayers, times the number of Catholics who recite them each day, someone has estimated that Mary would have to listen to 46,296petitions a second!
Obviously no one but God himself could do this. Nevertheless, Catholics believe that Mary hears all of these prayers and so of necessity, they have had to exalt her to the divine level –scriptural or not!
Attempting to justify the way Mary has been exalted, some have quoted the words of Gabriel to Mary, “Blessed art thou among woman” (Luke1:28), but Mary being “blessed among women” cannot make her a divine person, for many centuries before this, a similar blessing was pronounced upon Jael, of whom it was said: “blessed above woman shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be ….” (Judges5:24).
Before Pentecost, Mary gathered with the other disciples waiting for the promise of the Holy Spirit. We read that the apostles “all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus and His brethren” (Acts1:14). Typical of Catholic ideas concerning Mary, the illustration (as seen in the Official Baltimore Catechism) attempts to give Mary a central position but as all students of the Bible know, that the disciples were not looking to Mary on that occasion. They were looking to their resurrected and ascended CHRIST to outpour on them the gift of Holy Spirit. We also notice in the drawings and in pictures show Mary in the center of the disciples and the Holy Spirit (as a dove) is seen hovering over her! Yet as far as the scriptural account is concerned, the only one person upon whom the spirit as a dove descended was Jesus himself – not His mother!
On the other hand, the pagan virgin goddess under the name of Juno was often represented with dove on her head, as was also Astarte, Cybele and Isis!
Further attempts to glorify Mary may be seen in the Roman Catholic doctrine of perpetual virginity.
This is the teaching that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. The Encyclopedia Britannica explains the doctrine on the perpetual virginity of Mary was not taught until about three hundred years after the ascension of Jesus Christ. It was not until the council of chacedon in 451 that this fabulas quality gained the official recognition of Rome.
According to the scriptures, the birth of Jesus was result of a supernatural conception (Mathew 1:23) without an earthly father, after Jesus was born, Mary gave birth to other children–natural offspring of her union with Joseph her husband. Jesus was Mary’s “first born” son (Mathew1:25) it does not say He was her only child. Jesus being her first born child could certainly infer that later she had second born child, possibly a third-born child etc. That such was the case seems apparent for the names of four brothers are mentioned 1)James, Joseph, Simon and Judas (Mathew13:55). Sisters are also mentioned. The people of Nazareth said: “…. and his sisters are they not all with us?” (Mathew13:56) The word “sisters” is plural, of course so we know that Jesus had at least two sisters and probably more, for this verse speaks of “all” his sisters. Usually if we are referring to only two people we would say “both” of them, not “all” of them.
The implication is that at least three sisters are referred to, if we figure three sisters and four brothers, half brothers and half sisters of Jesus this would make Mary the mother of eight children.
The scripture say “Joseph … “knew her not” till she had brought forth her first born son: and he called his name “JESUS” (Mathew1:25, Luke 2:7). Joseph “knew her not” until after Jesus was born, but after that, Mary and Joseph did come together as husband and wife and children were born to them.
The idea that Joseph kept Mary as a virgin all of her life is clearly unscriptural.
During the times of the falling away, as though to more closely identify Mary with the mother goddess, some taught that Mary’s body never saw corruption, and she bodily ascended into heaven, and now the ‘queen of heaven’. It was not until this present century; however, the doctrine of the ‘assumption’ of Mary was officially proclaimed as a doctrine of Roman Catholic Church.
It was in 1951 that Pope Pius XII proclaimed that Mary’s body saw no corruption and was taken to heaven.
The words of St. Bernard sum up the Roman Catholic position: “On the third day after Mary’s death, when the apostles gathered around her tomb they found it empty. The sacred body had been carried up to the Celestial Paradise … the grave had no power over one who was immaculate … But it was not enough that Mary should be received into heaven. She was to be no ordinary citizen … she had a dignity beyond the reach even of the highest of the archangels. Mary was to be crowned Queen of Heaven by the eternal Father; she was to have a throne at her Sons right hand … Now day by day, hour by hour, she is praying for us, obtaining graces for us, preserving us from danger, shielding us from temptation, showering down blessings upon us.”
All these ideas about Mary are linked with the belief that she bodily ascended into heaven.
Beloved, The Bible says absolutely nothing about the assumption of Mary.
On the contrary John 3:13 says “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” – Jesus Christ himself.
He is the one that is at God’s right hand, He is the one that showers down blessings upon us.
Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men. 1Timothy2:5
Jesus said “I am The Way, The Truth and The Life.” John 14:6
Jesus said “No one comes to the Father except through Me”. John 14:6
“Believe in Lord Jesus Christ and be Saved – you and your household”. Acts 16:31
Jesus said “So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time”. Mark 13:23
God Said “My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge”. Hosea 4:6
Read the Word Of God listen to the His sweet voice.
Jesus Said “My sheep hear my voice, I know them, They follow me, I give then eternal life and no one can snatch them from My hand”. John 10:27
This is the Fantastic Promise Jesus gave us.
Beloved,
Whatever your cross, whatever your pain,
There will always be sunshine after the rain.
Perhaps you may stumble, perhaps even fall,
But God’s always there to help through it all.
Love and Peace be with you forever,
Amen!!
God Bless You
In His Mission
Bro. Alex Dhanvate.
Sydney
Australia
Catholics do not worship Mother Mary. Though that is the opinion of many other religions, it is not true. Catholics acknowledge Mary’s devotion to God. Its almost the same as people saying that Catholics worship statues when they don’t. In the Catholic religion we use them as reminders.
In saying that we worship Mary, we are saying that she in a way is as equal to us as God. and even though she should be…she’s not. we are only supposed to worship God and his son alone. Worshiping Mary is not a part of the Catholic religion. I’m not even in high school yet and I am aware that Catholics DO NOT worship statues, Mary, Saints, Or the Devil (obviously).
Hi ili,
It is wonderful to see that God has revealed much more to you than what others may not understand. God has chosen Mary for a very special role amongst all other women, to be the only human being to bear Jesus who would come into the world to show us the way back to the Father. It’s our devotion for her special role which God has entrusted to her. Perhaps, God has also chosen you to share your understanding with your friends in class if they were to ask you about this. Have a nice day.
But, we should only pray to our God.
Honor belongs to none except our Lord and Savior.
It is amazing that God has shown this great honor to her though.
But, to pray or bow to anyone except God is not right at all.
Amen!
Hi Luke,
The title of this post “Why do Catholics worship Mary, the Mother of Jesus” is a question often asked by non-Catholics. You are right that we should only worship God and I can attest that Catholics concur with you in this understanding. However, Catholics will explain that we do not “worship” Mary for worship is only for God. But because Mary, out of all the humans in this world, was specially chosen by God to bear Jesus (the Son of our heavenly Father), Catholics beseech her to assist to bring our prayers to the Father. Catholics do not worship Mary.
Bowing, prostrating oneself, kneeling down, a warm handshake with both hands…these are all human expressions of respect and reverence. The Japanese bow to one another does not mean that they are worshipping one another.
One who bows and kneels reverently but do not live the a life of goodness would be meaningless in such actions. On the otherhand, one can just bow but yet live the life of goodness woud fulfill what he believes in his/her actions. From my point of view, the expression of respect/ reverence must not just be seen but must be carried out and continued in our life’s daily activities with those around us.
Some polytheists argue by saying that the existence of more than one God is not illogical. Let us point out to them that if there were more than one God, they would dispute with one another, each god trying to fulfill his will against the will of the other gods. This can be seen in the mythology of the polytheistic and pantheistic religions. If a ‘God’ is defeated or unable to defeat the others, he is surely not the one true God. Also popular among polytheistic religions is the idea of many Gods, each having different responsibilities. Each one would be responsible for a part of man’s existence e.g. a Sun-God, a Rain-God, etc. This indicates that one ‘God’ is incompetent of certain acts and moreover he is also ignorant of the other Gods’ powers, duties, functions and responsibilities. There cannot be an ignorant and incapable God. If there were more than one God it would surely lead to confusion, disorder, chaos and destruction in the universe. But the universe is in complete harmony. The Glorious Qur’an says:
“If there were, in the heavens
And the earth, other gods
Besides Allah, there would
Have been confusion in both!
But glory to Allah,
The Lord of the Throne:
(High is He) above
What they attribute to Him!”
[Al-Qur’an 21:22]
If there were more than one God, they would have taken away what they created. The Qur’an says:
“No son did Allah beget,
Nor is there any god
Along with Him: (if there were
Many gods), behold, each god
Would have taken away
What he had created,
And some would have
Lorded it over others!
Glory to Allah! (He is free)
From the (sort of) things
They attribute to Him!”
[Al-Qur’an 23:91]
Thus the existence of one True, Unique, Supreme, Almighty God, is the only logical concept of God.
you can not peak a mango from the ground and start eating without a mango tree up.secondly you can not just come to some one house and call his/her child without the permition of his parent.you may think that the are doing somethink bad.if you realy know you are a child of God, you should not call them names but pray for them.JESUS sent them two by two and said to them”go and forgive their sins .any one you forgive his/her sin,it will be forgiven and any one you do not forgive, their sin will not be forgiven.the priests are the representatives of the apostle.further more,catholics do not only rely on the Bible but also from the teaching of the church and it’s leaders.(rooman catholic church no fit make mistake and e no fit talk lie)it’s roots is visible.before Jesus died on the cross, he said to peter,peter this is your mother(MARY) and said to the mother, Mary this is your son.this there4 mean that he gave us his mother be4 he died on the cross.why should some people refuse to accept her and give her some honour.because of her intercession in the married feast Jesus did his first miracle by turning water into wine.it is not every think that happen during the time of Jesus that is found in the Bible.A Bible is there4 an inspire summary written by inspire men(73 books)not(69)
I read this a little while ago but felt I had to come back to it. The original ‘question’ was a little presumptious, a bit like “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
As a Roman Catholic I have always had a special place in my heart for Mary, the mother of My Lord and Saviour, Jesus, the Christ; God amongst us. And it seems that someone made the assumption that we, as Catholics ‘worshipped’ Mary. That was then followed up by the usual ‘anti-Catholic’ rhetoric, where non-catholics, like Brother Alex, tell the whole world what we, as Catholics, believe and do. Dear Alex, just what really is your problem, when is your real agenda?
When Jesus and His Mother went to that marriage feast in Cana, it can be assumed that He, even as a man, knew that they had insufficient wine, but it was not until the intercession of His mother that He worked his first miracle. He turned the water into wine, so it would also be reasonable to assume that He had no problem with the drinking of alcohol and yet there are many Christians who insist on abstenance……………I love them for it, but don’t subscribe to it myself and I would never attempt to tell them they were wrong. There is only one God and all worship and praise must be given to him, but there are so many more things in Heaven and Earth that we will never know in this life and it is just our understanding of the Divine Mystery, however imperfect, that suggests that I can think lovingly towards Mary, the mother of My Lord. She was especially chosen by God, and He sent His messenger Gabriel, to ask her if she would consent to His plan. Note that God didn’t directly appear to her, but, as is common in scripture, and has happened throughout history and is happening this very instant at some place in the world, His angels are making themselves known to us. It is not contrary to scripture to believe that we each have a guardian angel and I for one, chat to mine from time to time. Angels are in direct contact with God, their maker, and yet can be our mentors also. Of course God could, and does this directly, but He also uses angels, and He gave us His mother (to John, actually and not Peter at the point of His death on the cross) to be our mother also. I have the Book of Maccabees in my Bible (Luther removed it from the Protestant one) and there it suggests that it is profitable to pray for the dead.
I pray to Mary, and the word ‘pray’ is from the middle-english meaning to ‘please ask for’ as in “I prey thee, whither goest thou?” It has absolutley nothing to do with ‘worship’ which is reserved singularly for God. Dear Bro Alex, you may believe exactly what you want of us, and that is perfectly OK by me, and if you want to judge me and condemn me to Hell Fire for worshiping false gods, then that too is OK. Only God has the right to judge, and I will stand before Him with fear and trembling for my judgement and continue to worship Him, and continue to ask His mother, Mary, for her prayers on my behalf, just as she did for the Chief Steward at that wedding feast in Cana over 2,000 years ago.
Paul
Hi Paul,
You have rightly put the context and role of Mary in the light of what the catholic church teaches.
i had gone thru the posts, i am not yet satisfied. a lot need to be cleared. DOES IT MEAN THAT CATHOLICS THINK THATTHEY ARE THE WORST SINNERS THAT CANNOT PRAY DIRECTLY TO JESUS AS HE INSTRUCTED OR WHAT?. WHY THRU MARY?.
Dear Stella,
Are you looking to be convinced that you have to recognise Mary as being The Mother of God, or are you looking to find fault with us Catholics as we Worship God our maker and Jesus as our Saviour, and put all others into their correct place within the realms of Heaven as we understand it?
WE DO NOT WORSHIP MARY.
But we recognise her as being chosen and especially favoured by God. We see her as ‘being full of grace’.that’s in the Bible and the Angel defined it at the annunciation. By being ‘full of grace’ and Jesus not yet being born, we define her as being free from Original Sin. She was, without doubt, a very special woman, and uniquely chosen to carry out a miraculous duty.
Of course we pray to and worship the one true and triune God, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, All praise and Honour is due to Him. Jesus gave His life that we might be saved; also we have no real understanding as to how it will be after death and if we will be saved, then ‘life’ in the eternal paradise of Heaven with God and all the Saints and Angels. It is way beyond our imagination.
I do not want to change you or your views, if you are content with your belief and have no need to give reverence to these holy saints then that is perfectly fine and good. If you wnat to direct your prayers only to God through Jesus, then that too is perfect. As Catholics we do exactly that, but we also ask Mary, the mother of Jesus, the Word made Flesh, and thus The Mother of God, for her intercession. She asked her Son for His intervention at Cana and it was at her request after the chief steward had asked her, that He performed His first miracle.
She has, without any doubt whatsoever, been given her rightful place in the eternal glory of God, in Heaven, and we believe that we can talk to her still. She was given to the world, through the desciple John, to be the mother of all, and we believe that she holds that role still. We believe we can come to her and ask her to appeal to her Son on our behalf. You may not agree with that, and it’s perfectly OK. You do not have to agree with us, but this is why we believe what we do and why we put Mary in such high regard, but it is only through the eternal Power of God that she is in such a position.
She has no power other that what God gives her. She played her part in providing the world with it’s redeemer, and that was an awful responsibility. She chose to fulfill that role; she could have said “no”. She was truely ‘full of grace’ and set apart from all other women. We believe that she was assumed into Heaven, body and soul. The Biblical precident had already been set with Enoch, Elijah and Moses all being taken bodily into Heaven (seen at Jesus’ transfiguration), so too do we believe was The Mother of God assumed into Heaven through tradition and early teaching.
Mary is not ‘more powerful’ than Jesus. Mary is not a substitute for God, we do not worship Mary, but simply give her the rightful position that, through teaching and tradition and Holy Scripture, we are shown.
We are all sinners, and even though Jesus died that we might be saved, we still have to become worthy of that gift. We still have to follow the Law, we still have to do good works, we still have to recognise our faults and when we fall, we have to ask for forgiveness from God through His priests and the apostolic tradition and the authoritative teaching of the Church that Jesus gave us. And we ask Jesus’ mother, Mary, for her intercession to her Divine Son, that He might smile on us, His creation, and grant us eternal salvation with Him in Heaven.
But you don’t have to believe as I do, neither do you have to do as I do. You have to be true to your self, but also you have to find the Truth. There is only one Truth. I believe that I have found it; you may not. That, too, is perfectly OK. God loves us all.
With love, Paul.
Why “pray with” Mary when you can pray by yourself? You don’t need her for God to hear your prayers. There are many other people in the Bible who did wonderful things so how come you wouldn’t pray with them?
How do you explain all the documented miracles that Mary has performed over the past 6 centuries? Fatima, Lourdes, Medjugorge, and dozens more. All these miracles have scientific fact that they occurred. Catholics do not worship Mary, they venerate (pray with) Mary to God. They believe in the power of pray- it is better to have 2 people praying for a petition rather than one. She is the first saint and Catholics hold saints in higher esteem than humans because their lives imitated Christ’s life. I do not condone other religions or spiritual beliefs and practices. If your way of life brings you peace and happiness then keep doing what you are doing. Furthermore, if you don’t agree with the Catholics concerning Mary, than that is fine as well. I truly want everyone to have serenity. I just wanted to share my thoughts on Mary. God Bless.
In the homily delivered by the celebrant last week during the Feast of the Assumption of Mother Mary on 15th Aug 2008, the often asked question “Why do Catholics worship Mary?” was raised. Shouldn’t Catholics be worshipping God instead, the supreme being, rather than a mere mortal? Isn’t God more important than Mary? What has Mary done to receive the reverence of Catholics? Indeed why? To put the understanding of Mary in its proper perspective, Catholics do not worship Mary, for worship is only for God. Mary is being honoured as the chosen one to assume a very special role in God’s plan of salvation. In the Annunciation when the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, an invitation was extended from God to her. She was invited to bear the Son of God. Amongst all women, that invitation went only to Mary. God knew that Mary would accept that invitation. Nevertheless, the focus was on Mary. Yes or no, the choice was hers. She can reject that invitation. However, her utmost faithfulness to God was in her reply “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” The Fiat of Mary. She fully submits herself to do God’s will in the face of trepidation that will arrive one day. The Annunciation was not just another appearance of God to mortals found in Scriptures. This appearance and invitation of God sets forth in bringing Jesus, the Son of God, into the world. During the Visitation when Mary, pregnant with Jesus, arrived at Elizabeth’s home who was also pregnant carrying John the Baptist, it was not a mere social greeting between two pregnant women saying “Hi! Long time no see. How have you been. I see that you are pregnant too”. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” The exclamation of Elizabeth was not just a verbal greeting from herself. It was God’s holy Spirit in her that displayed the utmost respect that was showered on Mary. Subsequently, Elizabeth who was so joyous from this visit, not from just the presence of Mary a mortal, but the chosen woman who is carrying the “mother of my Lord”. Not the “Lord” that refers to the social hierarchy of “Sir” or someone of power and high social standing. It will be the “Lord” who will one day free mankind from sins and pave the way back to God. The Eve in Genesis that led mankind fall into sin. So is Mary, the new “Eve” that brings Jesus into the world in God’s plan of salvation. If God has given Mary this honourable and special role of being the Mother of Jesus, who are we, as believers, to refute the honour that was bestowed by God on her?
I BELIEVE A PRIEST WHO CHANGED HIS WHOLE LIFE OVER A VISION REITHER THAN PEOPLE WHO GUESS AND INTERPRET SCRIPTURE ON THEIR OWN. PLEASE WATCH IT.
“When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, behold, your son!’. Then he said to the disciple, ‘Behold, your mother!’” (Jn 19:26-27)
The Catholic Mary agreas when she appears in Fatima she said to say “oh my jesus save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to heaven, show your mercy unto all especially those at most need of thy mercy.”
It was obviously not satan pretending to be mary because he would never tell us to say that.
Eve is the mother of the dead – those who live for Adam.
Mary is the mother of the living – those who live for Christ.
Your either a child of Mary or a child of Satan.
Rev 12 : 17 “Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring–those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus”.
Mary loves you SO MUCH and ALL she wants is to take you to Jesus Christ not herself. Satan hates Mary with a passion because she has took his original place (God’s favourite creature). He Hates Mary more than God himself because she is so close to God (Jesus Christ.)
Jesus Christ is ONE person not two, Mothers are mother of WHOLE persons NOT natures. Jesus is BOTH God and man and Mary is TRULY Mother of God.
Daughter of God the Father.
Mother of God the Son.
Mystical spouse of God the Holy Spirit.
I would not have someone as my mother daughter and wife so GOD OBVIOUSLY Loves Mary SO MUCH.
Say to Mary take me to JESUS CHRIST. Anyone who says “Mary you are blessed” is fulfilling Mary’s prophecy which is “For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed” Luke 1 :46
The catholic church is the only church that for generations has called mary blessed.
Yes Mary does need a Saviour I agrea but God saved Mary by protecting her from sin by his forseen merits. Mary calls God her saviour before he died for her and baptism proving Mary was already saved then unlike everyone else who had to literally wait until after his death and ressurection to say God was their saviour.
The almighty has done great THINGS for me she said with an S on the end so clearly theirs things God’s done for her not mentioned in scripture and even things the church doesnt know about.
MAKE LIFE EASIER and call it THE CHURCH instead of waisting time saying the world catholic because Antichristans always refer to that system headed from rome as the church acknowledging that that other groups are sects that have broke of the true church. the living – those who live for Christ.
YES WE COPY PAGAN IDEAS (ART – BIRTHDAYS etc) with christ theres neither gentile or jew but the church is ANTIPAGAN
Pope Eugene IV: The Council of Florence
“The holy Roman Church believes, professes, and preaches that no one remaining outside the Catholic Church, not just PAGANS, but also Jews or heretics or schismatics, can become partakers of eternal life; but they will go to the ‘everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life they are joined to the Church. For the union with the body of the Church is of such importance that the sacraments of the Church are helpful to salvation only for those remaining in it; and fasts, almsgiving, other works of piety, and the exercise of Christian warfare bear eternal rewards for them alone. And no one can be saved, no matter how much alms he has given, even if he sheds his blood for the name of Christ, unless he remains in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1438-45, From the Bull “Cantate Domino”, February 4, 1441 (Florentine style) Decree for the Jacobites, Denz. 165.)